Review of engineers invented from runout etchings

This began in the runout thread here

People appear to have been inventing artists based on unknown runout etchings. Below are what I could find (it's not comprehensive).

These all need to be checked (note: I didn't crosscheck these with the actual runout list):

Y (35)

Inviting rdvriese

FYI above is basically everything that came up for keyword searches for "unknown engineer" and "unidentified engineer" (plus a few I happened to come across). I fully people finding more names to add to that list.

As a general principle I'm against making up these initialism PANs, there's too much assuming going on here already. (I have less qualms about the nicknames though.)

After discussion, some can be added if there's enough evidence about there role. E.g. for certain plants or studios where the matrix follows a certain format and where some engineers in that format have already been identified.

This is exemplary for the kind of rubbish gets entered: https://discogs.mejorespelis.org/artist/2207620-AS-7/history#latest

Remarkable lot of Australians amongst there, I'll say that.

Some of these surely refer to an unknown cutting engineer (or any other valid credit), in which case they are OK.

But we have to be sure it doesn't stand for something else.

This one looks OK, for instance: R (52)
Because we know the runout pattern, we know it refers to an engineer (as far as the Decca profile is accurate)

Didn't open them all, but most of them seem to relate to a specific cutting facility. I don't think most of these are made up engineers. Invalidating/emptying these profiles doesn't seem to be a good idea. As long as the description is dry and factual, and is clear about whatever uncertainties play a role in the profile, it's better to risk having one or two incorrect profiles, over invalidating one or more correct profiles based on 'we don't know'.

There is no better way to find out things, than to index them (in a public accessible way, not 'lists'). It's the only tool we have to gather them, and update the info about them whenever more is found out.

rdvriese
After discussion, some can be added if there's enough evidence about there role.

Exactly. I'm totally in of this. The problem is that a lot of these were created by one person concluding that a two letter runout etching combination equates to an unknown engineer without any real evidence to it. My objective here is to identify as many of these as possible, add them to the list of unknowns, and DNU the profile.

rdvriese
Remarkable lot of Australians amongst there, I'll say that.

Those were all created by MartinJames (those are really what prompted this thread)

Dr.SultanAszazin
Some of these surely refer to an unknown cutting engineer (or any other valid credit), in which case they are OK.

Yes —I just created a big list. I didn't go through each one (hence the note about not cross-referencing with the runout list). Some are probably ok.

Re the ping in dub_e_72 to provide any context/background on that profile, as my edit there was merely updating crosslinks based on another discussion.

FYI I posted the URL to this thread to each of the profiles above just for documentation purposes.

I created JC (72), ironically after discussing it on the Runout Thread.

berothbr
Kaufman (3)

This is not a runout engineer, but just a person credited for mastering on some local Champaign-Urbana releases. Nothing here was invented, just a single named person who I don't have more info on.

This case is similar to a release that credits the bass player as "Paul". It's a valid credit, but if we don't know which Paul, we make a "Paul (123)". So not really related to the goals of this thread.

In this case he is credited as just "Kaufman" (or with a flowery ANV), but it's a printed credit, not an etching or matrix thing.

Showbiz_Kid
I created JC (72), ironically after discussing it on the Runout Thread.

As did I with WE (13) -

Can't find it, though. So I'm fine with removing it if that's what the consensus becomes....I think 5 years ago we had a different consensus.

Some searching of Bell Sound Studios and releases with "WE" etched in the runouts, I have seen Warren Evans (2) with ANV of WE

My creation of WE (13) was before the creation of the Warren Evans (2), so it wasn't even here to find at the time.

baldorr
This is not a runout engineer, but just a person [...] who I don't have more info on.

(re: Kaufman (3))

Best guess is it's Parasol Records in that timeframe), but it remains a guess.

A few years ago it was common practice to create profiles based on runout initials only to gather all the releases until the full name has been found (example: Gerry-O, Hü).
Sigh: "Appears to be an unidentified engineer but cannot be sure, so grouping the releases here until further information arises." - found in the profile of J.W (2).

This should not be done anymore because it's not clear what the initials stand for (shout-out, cutting, plating, plant, studio, etc.).

Best examples: the Optimal geometric marks or the Spartan Wales pressing plant using SW.

berothbr
⁕
⊕
⁀⁀

Should be eliminated immediately, we do not use symbols as PAN, Alias or ANVs.

CD (13) appears to be (the also unknown) CED (21).
RW (6) - I could check that with Björn Bieber of F13. EDIT: dropped him an email.
SL (12) is a total mess - it was originally created for the engineer but then disused and then "recreated" and now has a CD release...
All Optimal engineers should be DNU'd - there is too much danger of confusing them with plating marks.

To start with....

sebfact
A few years ago it was common practice to create profiles based on runout initials only to gather all the releases until the full name has been found ... This should not be done anymore because it's not clear what the initials stand for (shout-out, cutting, plating, plant, studio, etc.).

+1
A clear and unequivocal statement from the person with the greatest reputation in this area.

teffjweedy
Best guess is it's Jared Kaufman (they match for the visual credit roles (and between the two mastering credits, one is split with a layout credit) and are associated with Parasol Records in that timeframe), but it remains a guess.

Oh, cool! I’ll investigate more. One of the great things about being able to search on label pages is for this exact purpose. You can search for a name that you know is associated with a certain label or studio. Anyway, I’m from this area so I actually know several people here. I can dig through FB and stuff to see if I can find the connection. Thanks!

Showbiz_Kid
I created JC (72), ironically after discussing it on the Runout Thread.

leeving
As did I with WE (13) -

As stated above, this is just a list that hasn’t been cross checked with the runout thread. Not everything on the list is wrong.

sebfact
A few years ago it was common practice to create profiles based on runout initials only to gather all the releases until the full name has been found (example: Gerry-O, Hü).

I have no problem with that practice - we just need to make sure that there’s a vetting process (hence this thread).

sebfact
CD (13) appears to be (the also unknown) CED (21).

Should we DNU #13 or just link it as an alias?

teffjweedy
(re: Kaufman (3))

Should I remove it from the list?

sebfact
Should be eliminated immediately, we do not use symbols as PAN, Alias or ANVs.

I’m pretty sure Brian Gardner

berothbr
Should we DNU #13 or just link it as an alias?

Difficult to answer.... The profile pix do not show CD for sure though. Did the subbers really see CD or weren't they able to deciper the scripted CED?
ATM, I'd say DNU CD (13) and have all releases with an ANV of CED. Some may have a second look afterwards... (hope dies last).

I have dropped Flight13 an email about RW (6).

P (42) is one of the cases where we know the role Plated By but lack the full name. So this is fine, methinks.

sebfact
Did the subbers really see CD or weren't they able to deciper the scripted CED?

Who knows. I DNU’d it with a redirect to CED

I'm wondering whether some people are looking at the 'unknowns' section of the runouts master list and thinking 'if it's unknown and in the list I'd better create an 'unknown' profile for that etching.

If there's enough evidence that the etching IDs an engineer (or a company such as a studio) but the exact identification is unknown, then it's fine to create an 'unknown' PAN (or PCN) – as is done for most Optimal Media engineers. It's seeing an etching and assuming that it's an engineer's initials and then creating a PAN on that basis that shouldn't be done.

I forgot to ping andygrayrecords who might be interested in this.

andrenafulva
It's seeing an etching and assuming that it's an engineer's initials and then creating a PAN on that basis that shouldn't be done.

I think it’s more that than anything else.

Silford Walker* / Mighty Two* - Jah Golden Pen / Golden Dub so that we can add it to the list of unknowns?

sebfact how do you want us to communicate what should be added to the list of unknowns?
Should I just add a note next to the PAN on the list and you can check it later?
I assume you’ll go insane if we ping you separately for every name on the list.

T-Bar how do you know that etching is for a person (and a cutting engineer) rather than something else?

AS (7) person might be named Antonio Spataro. Can you please share where that info comes from?

berothbr
(re: Kaufman (3))
Should I remove it from the list?

Yes, please remove this. It's not relevant to this discussion about adding a credit for an unknown runout etching.

baldorr
Yes, please remove this.

Done

If Antonio Spataro is not the same this AS?, I'm uncertain on this one?.

berothbr
Should I just add a note next to the PAN on the list and you can check it later?

Yes, please. I guess that's the best way to get this sorted.

sebfact everything I noted above is probably safe to add to the list and DNU. Everything else without a note needs further discussion or looks ok imo.

berothbr
everything I noted above is probably safe to add to the list and DNU

Added to the list of Unknowns.

Except:
(13): On the release we have BA on side A and on side B. Looks more like additional letters from Don Bartley. Might also be the case with one of the AT?
P (24): profile and releases all messy and I believe this was cleared to be Pierre Geoffroy Chateau.

sebfact
(13): On the release we have BA on side A and on side B. Looks more like additional letters from Don Bartley. Might also be the case with one of the AT?

That seems plausible for (13) especially because it’s only on one release. With AT, I think it’s safe to add to the list of unknowns because it’s on a bunch of releases.

sebfact
P (24): profile and releases all messy and I believe this was cleared to be Pierre Geoffroy Chateau.

rdvriese seems to have moved those, so they probably can give you a better answer.

berothbr
rdvriese seems to have moved those, so they probably can give you a better answer.

Nope, but whoever did so (correctly by the way, as the engineer was identified) just never updated the profile. I just did so, it's now unambiguously occupied by the Dimension Seven bassist.

These have a lot of releases. I’ve noted the # of releases each appears on below. Some might be safe to add to the actual runout list:
Y (35) = 52

berothbr
SJ (13) = 555

Asked a former Optimal engineer about this etching.

EDIT: he confirmed that SJ was an engineer in the 2010s. I have ed the man and hope it's indeed him. Fingers crossed.

berothbr
Some might be safe to add to the actual runout list:

Was always tempted for e.g. CED, Hü and Gerry-O. And yet, they still are unknown, despite an existing profile.
But I think the dams have already broken.....

sebfact
Was always tempted for e.g. CED, Hü and Gerry-O. And yet, they still are unknown, despite an existing profile.

I think those still are ok - it’s highly improbable those are not for engineers. We might as well just get the releases documented. If we actually figure out their real names or etc., it will be easy to mass edit everything.

Saw this thread by a happenstance the other day. I tried to research and solve the Astro Record pressing plant.

I had left my AS list public and DiscoMagicUK had seen it and sent me this wonderful message:
"I saw your post about the "mystery" of the AS etching.
It is in fact the etching of Astro Record. the vinyl factory owned by Discomagic in Italy.
The almost totality of our Disco Magic UK records in the early 90s were pressed there.
Hope this solves the mystery :)

PS.: sadly Astro Record closed down 20 years ago, "

Here's is same thing as above told by DiscoMagicUK https://www.facebook.com/discomagicukltd/photos/a.365101377249327/390316041394527/?type=3

Here's an Italian article about Discomagic Records), which tells that [google translate] "in 1992 he purchased Astro Record, a prestigious plant for the production of vinyl and cassettes" https://www.ecodibergamo.it/stories/eppen/cultura/musica/vittorio-lombardoni-comonte-milano-vita-nella-musica-come-patron-della-o_1427644_11/

The story of Discomagic ended in 1997 which coincides with ending for AS marking on records. The last AS markings on records are from 1997. I would presume that Astro Record might have closed down with Discomagic in 1997.

Here's one interesting release entry from database that has printed by Astro Record credit and also runout credit for AS added Magnum Cum Louder that has not only runout credit for AS but also ASTRO.

That’s awesome sebfact should read your post.

triv
The last AS markings on records are from 1997

That’s what I’m seeing too. The big question that’s left is when did they open?

berothbr
The big question that’s left is when did they open?

Well that's a harder question.

There's an unviewable book from 1987 that gives the full address of company as ASTRO RECORD S.N.C. Via 4 Novembre 65, 27018 Vidigulfo (PV) https://tinyurl.com/2r9pvnsb

There exist online entries for a company called Astro Record S.r.l. which is located in the exact same street.

"Astro Record S.r.l. operates within the MANUFACTURE OF COKE AND PETROLEUM REFINING PRODUCTS industry. The company was founded in 1980" https://www.creditsafe.com/business-index/nl-nl/company/astro-record-srl-it03407213
[note that vinyls oil based product]

"Astro Record S.r.l. is active in the recorded media playback industry. The company was incorporated on 1980" https://www.creditsafe.com/business-index/de-de/company/astro-record-srl-it03407213

These two give different first dates but both state Feb 1980 as starting date.
https://www.reportaziende.it/astro_record_srl_pv_00803550185
https://www.fatturatoitalia.it/astro_record_srl-00803550185

If we dare to assume this is the same company then it started operation in Feb 1980, but what is unknown when it included vinyls in its business. It could have been later than 1980 that they got interested in vinyl manufacturing.

triv
If we dare to assume this is the same company then it started operation in Feb 1980, but what is unknown when it included vinyls in its business. It could have been later than 1980

The only pre-1980 release is Iggy Pop - Lust For Life

berothbr
The only pre-1980 release is Iggy Pop - Lust For Life

It's likely something different as it's ÅS instead of AS. I suspect that one is a wrong entry.

Just for example, if on vinyl RUNOUT 001 is marked at 12 o'clock. The AS is always on the opposite side at 6 o'clock. Also the AS marking is different from RUNOUT 001 marking. The AS marking is more "slimmer".

triv
It's likely something different as it's ÅS instead of AS.

We need to figure out how to discern these more effectively than just release year.

That's an excellent findling.

Why shouldn't it have started as pressing plant right away?

sebfact
Why shouldn't it have started as pressing plant right away?

What’s worse is AS (7) profile correct.

I assume you invalidating it?

berothbr
I assume you invalidating it?

Yup.

triv
"I saw your post about the "mystery" of the AS etching.
It is in fact the etching of Astro Record. the vinyl factory owned by Discomagic in Italy.
The almost totality of our Disco Magic UK records in the early 90s were pressed there.
Hope this solves the mystery :)

However, this does not necessarily mean that the recordings were also pressed there. And even if it did, this could just be the abbreviation for an engineer (Mastering / lacquer cut / metalwork).

triv
Another intriguing entry is Magnum Cum Louder that has not only runout credit for AS but also ASTRO.

Accordingly, however, there is nothing to be said against it if "Plated By" were correct.
Like here: Happy Mondays - Hallelujah
The person, responsible for the signature 'AS' / the plating, etc. (maybe Antonio Spataro), just did his work at Astro Record.

AudioPhilet
The person, responsible for the signature 'AS' / the plating, etc. (maybe Antonio Spataro), just did his work at Astro Record.

That theory was debunked.

Even if this was debunked -

triv
I had left my AS list public and DiscoMagicUK had seen it and sent me this wonderful message:
"I saw your post about the "mystery" of the AS etching.
It is in fact the etching of Astro Record. the vinyl factory owned by Discomagic in Italy.
The almost totality of our Disco Magic UK records in the early 90s were pressed there.
Hope this solves the mystery :)

1) ... this does not necessarily mean that the recordings were also pressed there. And even if it did, this could just be the abbreviation for an(other) engineer (responsible for mastering / lacquer cut / metalwork).

2) Besides, we have many entries with "Plated By AS (7)"

AudioPhilet
2) Besides, we have many entries with "Plated By AS (7)"

See above. Those are all wrong.

AudioPhilet
And even if it did, this could just be the abbreviation for an(other) engineer (responsible for mastering / lacquer cut / metalwork).

There’s no evidence to that.

AudioPhilet

2) Besides, we have many entries with "Plated By AS (7)"

Having many entries for a credit does not mean that credit is correct if nobody bothered to check it’s correct from the start.

That whole sub history is prime conjecture. If it’s debunked, it can be discarded.

rdvriese
Having many entries for a credit does not mean that credit is correct if nobody bothered to check it’s correct from the start.

That's clear as mud.

triv
I had left my AS list public and DiscoMagicUK had seen it and sent me this wonderful message:
"I saw your post about the "mystery" of the AS etching.
It is in fact the etching of Astro Record. the vinyl factory owned by Discomagic in Italy.
The almost totality of our Disco Magic UK records in the early 90s were pressed there.
Hope this solves the mystery :)

berothbr
There’s no evidence to that.

... and this is/should be enough evidence to , that this signature means "pressed by Astro Record"?
It's just an etching of Astro Record as mentioned above.

AudioPhilet
and this is/should be enough evidence to , that this signature means "pressed by Astro Record"?

Why are you asking me that question?

Same as

berothbr
There’s no evidence to that.

I'm not asking you personally.
But I have reservations about drawing conclusions from one to the other.
one="It is in fact the etching of Astro Record"
other=pressing plant

And for all the others, it's a discussion about AS (7)

AudioPhilet
That's clear as mud.

Let me rephrase in a way that's hopefully clearer: no evidence = no credit.

AS being an engineer was an assumption right from the beginning.
Plated By because there evidently were lacquer credits, too.

IMO, it has been proven wrong, reminding me of "Plated By - SW" - effectively standing for Spartan Manufacturing Ltd., called "Spartan Wales".

leeving
Showbiz_KidI created JC (72), ironically after discussing it on the Runout Thread.

As did I with WE (13) -

Can't find it, though. So I'm fine with removing it if that's what the consensus becomes....I think 5 years ago we had a different consensus.

Some searching of Bell Sound Studios and releases with "WE" etched in the runouts, I have seen Warren Evans (2) mentioned on a couple, so maybe WE (13) can be removed and the 2 subs changed to Warren Evans (2) with ANV of WE

My creation of WE (13) was before the creation of the Warren Evans (2), so it wasn't even here to find at the time.

Isn't this Mack Evans

bargainvinyl1
Isn't this Mack Evans

Did Mack Evan’s work at Bell Sound?

I ed a preview copy of Vinyl history the illustrated history of Disco Magic UK which give some more tidbits about Astro Record. I'll quote some parts below. https://discomagicuk.dance/product/vinyl-history/

"-- he(Severo Lombardoni) invested by buying two vinyl factories in Italy, including Astro Record, the factory where eventually Disco Magic UK would manufacture almost all of their vinyl in the early 90s"

Then at one point it tells about how they're using same metalwork as the originals and pressing them in the same factory in Italy, but it caused troubles with SIAE as all records pressed in Italy must have physical stamp from SIAE. A policy that was enforced on all Italian factories with the risk of heavy fines. A dispute that Radaelli won and he could manufacture his records in Italy without getting SIAE stamped which he didn't want to get.

"We obtained mechanical licenses from MS and faxed them to the plant in Italy. The manager of Astro Record was shocked! It took an official letter from SIAE to convince her she could press records for us without the "bollino SIAE" on the label without risking being fined and closed down!"

Finally we have an actual release example "By December 1993 we had two more exclusive releases ready to be cut and pressed in Italy: -- Action! [note it has AS listed on the runout] -- Both were pressed at Astro Record in December 1993 --

So, I think with what we have learned, we have enough proof to move and change Astro Record. What others think?

triv
So, I think with what we have learned, we have enough proof to move and change AS (7) credits to Pressed By - Astro Record. What others think?

+1

berothbr
berothbr 13 days ago
ER (16)
nattygreg are you able to add an image of the etching to Silford Walker* / Mighty Two* - Jah Golden Pen / Golden Dub so that we can add it to the list of unknowns?

Sorry for the late reply
I've added the signature pics here
https://discogs.mejorespelis.org/fr/release/1193960-Silford-Walker-Mighty-Two-Jah-Golden-Pen-Golden-Dub
I hope this helps
Thanks

nattygreg
Sorry for the late reply
I've added the signature pics here
https://discogs.mejorespelis.org/fr/release/1193960-Silford-Walker-Mighty-Two-Jah-Golden-Pen-Golden-Dub

Awesome. sebfact can you add that one to the list of unknowns?

triv
Pressed By - Astro Record. What others think?

+1

berothbr
can you add that one to the list of unknowns?

A Jamaican "ER" has long been on the list already.

Per MKC (6) be added to OP list, and its fate decided here. Whether it should remain/get added to unknowns list/get regenerated as full name PAN, etc.

The "MKC" signature on early 1980s Carrollton-associated pressings was determined to *likely* be Mary K. Curothers or Mary K. Caruthers based on https://discogs.mejorespelis.org/forum/thread/810326?message_id=9906271&page=111#9907798
(etc. -- those are the bulk of the conversation with the name source).

Eventually Simon & Garfunkel - Simon And Garfunkel's Greatest Hits.

Thanks for considering.

j_lit
requesting that MKC (6) be added to OP

Done

j_lit
where it was suggested to create a PAN under that full name:

What role would we use for her?

berothbr
Done

Thank you!

Edit (it posted before I could finish replying...)

berothbr
j_litrequesting that MKC (6) be added to OPDone
j_litwhere it was suggested to create a PAN under that full name:What role would we use for her?

Based on the linked discussions above, I think the consensus was a lacquer engineer role, due to the research that suggested she was an apprentice engineer to Chet Bennett at Carrollton, and only worked there a few years.

Those who had the discussion/research (e.g., originated with MdubG) could probably better describe what was being proposed. From:
https://discogs.mejorespelis.org/forum/thread/810326?message_id=9906271&page=111#9906271

MdubG
Chet explained that MKC only did mastering for a short time. He trained her in 1983. He left Carrollton in 1986 to pursue mastering in the indie industry.

Chet really was adamant about Mary K Curothers as MKC.

sebfact
A Jamaican "ER" has long been on the list already.

Awesome. FYI they added an image if you want to add that.

berothbr
AM (23)

Has now been identified being Andre Muchow.
Profile DNU'd. All other relevant profiles and the Runout Master Lists have been updated.

Edit:

berothbr
SJ (13) = sebfact is researching this

Resolved - it's Steffan Jeschek

berothbr
I think NH (3) is Noel Hanson (2)

Who is already on the Master List.

Do you guys think those "birds" look like Brian Gardner ?
https://imgur.com/a/bAbqI
https://imgur.com/a/hTpKU

Also a few more runouts that need to be ID'd:

From Various - Beat Dimensions Vol.2
http://imgur.com/a/KGtw2

From Julien Grandjean

From Lorn (2) - Remnant
Side A https://imgur.com/a/QLtOvIQ
Side B https://imgur.com/a/2WTGDea

j_lit
and only worked there a few years.

There are tons of MKC found on releases prior to 1983. Either all these dates are wrong (very likely) or we have two MKC...

sebfact
j_litand only worked there a few years.There are tons of MKC found on releases prior to 1983. Either all these dates are wrong (very likely) or we have two MKC...

Yep, was just relaying what others had stated... I have no inside info other than that.

MKC remains difficult....

berothbr
bargainvinyl1Isn't this Mack Evans
Did Mack Evan’s work at Bell Sound?

Not as far as I am aware

berothbr
These all need to be checked (note: I didn't crosscheck these with the actual runout list):

same here, but i would like to suggest you to add those to your list :

HA (8)

please, note they appear in the profile of the studio Pauler Acoustics for whatever reason.
i doubt they exist, to be honest ; probably some misreaden etchings of the known engineers...
can’t tell exactly !

dub_e_72
K.D. (23)
KM (31)
U.P. (3)
Kr (14)
UR (14)
NR (6)
HA (8)

please, note they appear in the profile of the studio Pauler Acoustics for whatever reason.
i doubt they exist, to be honest ; probably some misreaden etchings of the known engineers...
can’t tell exactly !

Checked those ... I doubt they are correct. Will remove those entries from the Pauler Acoustics profile!

dub_e_72
same here, but i would like to suggest you to add those to your list

Sorry - I didn’t see your message until now. I just added those.

berothbr
I just added those.

thank you for taking care !

i’m kind of embarassed about L (44), because i’m 100% responsible of this one.
it comes from Decca Studios, Paris engineer and others !)

this PAN was created during the discussion of this forum thread, after an agreement, so they are very difficult to find in the db ; and then (a few weeks later), it was decided elsewhere to do not create such un-identified PANs anymore ; so,... i’m sorry for this one :(

dub_e_72
i’m kind of embarassed about L (44), because i’m 100% responsible of this one

Anything I added to the list is not necessarily wrong - it just means that I want people to review it. There are a few of these from Decca Studios, Paris.

berothbr
There are a few of these from Decca Studios, Paris.

normally, it should be the only one, if we stick to the Decca Studios, Paris sub section of the master list of runout information, others are Aliases of known engineers.

dub_e_72
normally, it should be the only one

What I meant was that there are a few engineers from there with similar formatting.

berothbr
RW (6) = sebfact is researching this

Dropped some mails to Flight 13 but to no avail. Maybe Björn is on vacation or busy.
For the time being, I suggest to DNU the PAN - RW is in the list of Unknowns already. After all, it's on 2 releases only.

sebfact
For the time being, I suggest to DNU the PAN - RW is in the list of Unknowns already.

Done.

cereal
Checked those ... I doubt they are correct. Will remove those entries from the Pauler Acoustics profile!

All of those were wrongly entered Hendrik Pauler or Emre Meydan. Fixed therm all.

berothbr you can remove those from your listing or mark them as fixed

cereal
mark them as fixed

Done

cereal
Fixed therm all.

well done ! the ‘artist’ profile of Pauler Acoustics should be DNUed too, IMO...
if someone have this privilege... unfortunately, i still cannot since xmas ‘21 ;-(
sorry.

dub_e_72
the ‘artist’ profile of Pauler Acoustics should be DNUed too, IMO...

I guess so, but this is new mass edit that should receive it's own thread or be discussed in the companies as artists thread.

cereal
that should receive it's own thread or be discussed in the companies as artists thread.

i don‘t think so, since https://discogs.mejorespelis.org/forum/thread/1064807?page=1#10997708 ;o)

dub_e_72
i don‘t think so, since https://discogs.mejorespelis.org/forum/thread/1064807?page=1#10997708 ;o)

Then go ahead and move the credits to companies.

cereal
Then go ahead and move the credits to companies.

oh yes, of course ! thank you, i will...

not sure if Rc (17) should be added to the list as well, or not 🤔

dub_e_72
not sure if Rc (17) should be added to the list as well

I don’t know. sebfact was involved with that one.

dub_e_72
not sure if Rc (17) should be added to the list as well, or not 🤔

Yes.
The profile is misleading. Even though I'm fairly sure it was a plater, I do believe that many releases were likely cut by Ralph Copeman rather than plated by "Rc" (edit: e.g. a good number of Depeche Mode releases).
Also, Plated By - Rc doesn't make any sense on Sonopress pressings either, because 020 stands for external lacquers received (not metals).
And, after all, small c or large C is in the eye of the beholder...

The profile should be DNU'd and Rc added to the list of unknowns.

sebfact
The profile should be DNU'd and Rc added to the list of unknowns.

sebfact
I do believe that many releases were likely cut by Ralph Copeman

Do we redirect to Ralph Copeman?

berothbr
Do we redirect to Ralph Copeman?

We shouldn't as there definitely is "Rc" in combination with other engineers, e.g. Tim Young, Tony B̶r̶i̶d̶g̶e̶ Cousins or Boppin' Bob. Copeman never worked for CBS, Townhouse or CTS though.

I have asked in several subs for additional pix of the Rc or RC - sometimes the RC appears to be an Rc but isn't. Copeman's scribe often looks like Rc but is RC and the lower stroke of the C is elongated not round.

EDIT: have asked some veterans but no plater Rc is known, while RC for Copeman is known.

"Rc" is already in the list of unknowns of the Runout Master List.

DNU Rc (17). Then
- where Rc is found with other engineers (e.g. THT): remove Plated By role. Rc remains unknown.
- On Sonopress pressings with Rc: remove Plated By role. 020 is for lacquer cuts.
In a Music Week article from May 1993, Copeman is lauded "legendary compilation album expert" so maybe there was a Copeman oversight over the cutting at CTS (or rather, RC stands for something different). Interestingly, Jones and Copeman were both working at Copymasters in the early 1990s.
Anyway, Rc is not a plater in these cases - meaning is unknown.
- Move releases where no other studio or engineer is present and where it clearly reads RC over to Copeman.
- Where it can be proven that it's indeed Rc, remove Plated By on these as well, Rc remains unknown. (I have checked the relevant Factory releases and the Rc have no resemblance with RC, except the Joy Division Unknown Pleasures which on side A has RC (with elongated lower C) but side B has Rc. To my knowledge, Factory only engaged Pounda at Tape One twice for reissues, it wasn't their studio of choice.)