Merging / Cleansing (Latin America) Artists

UriahCego
Haven't seen this wrong ANV?

- https://discogs.mejorespelis.org/artist/383091-Rene-Hernandez?filter_anv=1&anv=El+Conjunto+De+Ren%C3%A9+Hern%C3%A1ndez > 1 release with incorrect PAN to individual artist
- https://discogs.mejorespelis.org/artist/383091-Rene-Hernandez?filter_anv=1&anv=Ren%C3%A9+Hernandez+Orquestra > another one

borderes
I propose to merge the following artists, if no one against:

> Ricardo Fábregas and Ricardo Fabrega seem the same person

Agree. PAN seems to be Ricardo Fábrega from what I can find on internet, eg. http://panamapoesia.com/pt55.htm

agree on both counts

thanks for your messages
Just taking the opportunity you're still here to propose another couple of cases:

- Trio Vegabajeño

- Rogelio "Kito" Vélez are the same, to which one should the merge be done?

Kito Velez seems to be his artist name. All of the Rogelios are for songwriting credits, where one commonly uses given names. So Kito Velez as PAN, put Rogelio Velez as real name in profile, ANV where Rogelio is used.

borderes
- Trio Vegabajeño is the same as Trio Vegabajeno, and same as Fernandito Alvarez Y Su Trio Vegabajeño
>> suggest merging to Trio Vegabajeño

Absolutely agree here. to mark as invalid the other 2 Pans.

borderes
-Kito Velez and Rogelio "Kito" Vélez are the same, to which one should the merge be done?

I don't see here why 2 PANs. Keep Rogelio "Kito" Vélez as PAN.

If they were aliases of each other, then Rogelio Velez and R. Velez (actually ANVs) should be a third page for this artist?
https://discogs.mejorespelis.org/artist/2851664-Rogelio-Kito-Vélez?filter_anv=1&anv=Rogelio+V%C3%A9lez

We should use 2 names: https://discogs.mejorespelis.org/artist/2851664-Rogelio-Kito-V%C3%A9lez?filter_anv=1&anv=Rogelio+V%C3%A9lez

UriahCego
Regarding to Fábregas, my vote is for Ricardo Fábregas Ricardo Fabrega as PAN.

EDIT: Changed my mind after read denizen's post.

I actually said Ricardo Fábrega, not Fabrega... :) . Doesn't exist yet in the DB with the accent on the "a", but I think it should be created and used as PAN.

BTW there's also Ricardo Fabregat that should be merged.

Trying to correct the latin artists and records is a daunting task, I'm glad someone is on it (borderes, where are you from btw?). I've been fixing stuff on Mexican artists the last couple of weeks but the task is huge.

Another duplicated and wrongly marked as invalid artist is Carlos Enrique Brito Benavides.
Please see forum thread:
https://discogs.mejorespelis.org/forum/thread/715968

And another one:
- Orquesta Chucho Zarzosa) >> proposed = merge to the Spanish name as PAN
(UriahCego )

will do a sum up of all the cases discussed here before proceeding when I'll have a little more time.

CHUCHO ZARZOSA y su conjunto should be marked as invalid and deleted from profile - second one with warning but not marked invalid.
I can't do it as I don't have voting rights.

I Disagree here a conjunto and an orchestra are two different things. A Conjunto is a certain set up of musicians and numbers, while an Orchestra is a larger group of musicians and they should be separate.

Maherto
Orquesta Chucho Zarzosa is the one to keep. Chucho Zarzosa Et Son Orchestre and CHUCHO ZARZOSA y su conjunto should be marked as invalid and deleted from profile - second one with warning but not marked invalid.

djgurygury
conjunto and an orchestra are two different things

Don't you think that in many cases Conjunto or Orchestra are used indistinctly of this definition?
IMO also depends on the country

borderes
MO also depends on the country

I think so.

Status as per today:

1> [DONE] Ricardo Fábregas and Ricardo Fabrega and Ricardo Fabregat > merge to Ricardo Fábrega (to be created, needs the “á” this is the correct spelling
•
2> [DONE] Rene Hernandez Y Su Orquesta, Orchestra Rene Hernandez, René Hernandez Orquestra, and Rene Hernandez Orchestra >> merge to Rene Hernandez Y Su Orquesta + marking the others as invalid
+ René Hernandez Orquestra in Rene Hernandez profile, and fixing wrong ANVs to this entry.
+ El Conjunto De René Hernández >> (cf. point by djgurygury)- proposed rule: keep or separate Conjunto / Orchesta to be decided case per case ie. When there evidence or at least strong belief that Conjunto had a fairly different line-up
>> suggested in this case => merge entries to Orquesta at this stage
•
3> [DONE] Trio Vegabajeño is the same as Trio Vegabajeno, and same as Fernandito Alvarez Y Su Trio Vegabajeño >> merge to Trio Vegabajeño
•
4> [DONE] Kito Velez , Rogelio "Kito" Vélez and Rogelio Vélez are the same, to which one should the merge be done?
+ Kito Velez Y Sus Estrellas group linked to the right one
would like to avoid Alias for a nickname here RSG §2.5.2+ so many other artists are entered first name “nickname” last name >> proposed: Keep Rogelio "Kito" Vélez as PAN.
•
5> [DONE] Carlos Brito Vs. Carlos Enrique Brito Benavides.
Please see forum thread: https://discogs.mejorespelis.org/forum/thread/715968
•
6> [DONE] Orquesta Chucho Zarzosa same than Chucho Zarzosa Et Son Orchestre >> merge to Orquesta Chucho Zarzosa)
+ CHUCHO ZARZOSA y su conjunto >> keep as a separate entry
•
NEW CASES:
[DONE] Pepito Maduro >> suggested merge to Pepito Maduro

[DONE] Rafael Cepeda Atiles
•
> updated status

borderes
José Pepito Maduro & Pepito Maduro >> suggested merge to José Pepito Maduro

Pepito being a diminutive of José, it should at least be written as José "Pepito" Maduro. But it seems he was always known and credited as Pepito Maduro ( http://www.puertadetierra.info/figuras/gente/pepito/pepito.htm for instance), so I'd leave Pepito Maduro as PAN and add his real name to the artist profile.

borderes
Rafael Cepeda & Rafael Cepeda Atiles >> suggested merge to Rafael Cepeda Atiles

agree

Looks like Chucho Zarzosa y Su Conjunto is a five men group. See here »»»» Chucho Zarzosa y Su Conjunto - Concierto En Jazz
You can add these musicians to the "Conjunto" PAN

https://discogs.mejorespelis.org/artist/3672030-Orquesta-Chucho-Zarzosa?noanv=1
Generally a different set of musicians with strings & bandoneón, best known as "Orquesta Típica".

I will research a little more, but IMHO: two PANS are needed here.

ANother one:
Seems that Felipe Rodriguez
+ Felipe Rodriguez (La Voz) Y Su Conjunto to be linked accordingly
+ Trio Los Antares

UriahCego
two PANS are needed here

sounds like the perfect example of having 2 separate entries

Maherto
I agree, leaving Rene Hernandez Y Su Orquesta as the PAN, and marking the others as invalid. And adding the correct one on Rene Hernandez's profile.

UriahCego
Agreed with Maherto:
Rene Hernandez Y Su Orquesta as PAN

The PAN should be the Spanish name, Rene Hernandez Y Su Orquesta.

Maherto
The PAN should be the Spanish name, Rene Hernandez Y Su Orquesta.

yes, edited

borderes
+ Felipe Rodriguez Y Su Trio Antares eq. to Trio Los Antares >> proposed merge to Trio Los Antares

Agree. Also on base exists Los Antares.

New: proposing to merge
- Julio Andino Y Su Orquesta

Maherto
Agree. Also on base exists Los Antares.

>> so merging all to Trio Los Antares?

I think so.

ok, so merging to Trio Los Antares.
+ related to Trio Los Antares is Felipe Rodriguez:
- Felipe Rodriguez (2) seems the same person: do you agree?

an exemple of today's fixes .. almost none of the artists was correct!
https://discogs.mejorespelis.org/release/8326323-Best-of-Buena-Vista-Vol2/history#latest

New one:
Luis Frank Arias

borderes
New one:
Luis Frank Arias & Luis Frank are the same >> suggest merging to Luis Frank Arias

+1, seems the more used name.
Please someone could mark https://discogs.mejorespelis.org/forum/thread/715968

Maherto
mark Carlos Enrique Brito Benavides as invalid

done

Trio Los Antares merging = DONE
remains to be done: merge of Felipe Rodriguez (2) -- suggested:
- Felipe Rodriguez > for the Puerto Rican singer
- "Don't Say No" by KC & Sunshine Band (most probably a different person)
Anyone in favor, or with a different view?

Seems correct.

Today, Cachao's case: (Cachao is Israel López)
As an individual:
- Cachao (15 entries removing the incorrect groups ANVs)
- Israel "Cachao" López ( > 130 entries, with ~15 without Cachao)
- Israel López Valdés (Cachao) (only 1 entry)
>> propose merging to Israel "Cachao" López

Groups:
- Cachao Y Su Típica
- Cachao Y Su Orquesta > maybe to merge with the previous one?
- Cachao Y Su Conjunto
- Cachao Y Su Combo
- Cachao Y Su Ritmo Caliente
>> probably keep all these entries, except maybe merging the 2 first ones??

borderes
- Cachao (15 entries removing the incorrect groups ANVs)
- Israel "Cachao" López ( > 130 entries, with ~15 without Cachao)
- Israel López Valdés (Cachao) (only 1 entry)
>> propose merging to Israel "Cachao" López

The 2 latest can be merged but when he uses his real name and his alias are very different names, as Cachao doesn't include any mention to Israel Lopez.
See similar problem with https://discogs.mejorespelis.org/forum/thread/53c965d5c131f3330375ffb5

Please help with anoher one: https://discogs.mejorespelis.org/forum/thread/716480

Maherto
similar problem

To me that's not exactly the same problem: this was a nickname more than a stage name. Most of the musicians had nicknames by then, often associated with their names, and when also a composer the difference btw credits as a composer or a musician was not so formal or systematic, and probably more the appreciation of the person writing credits rather than a requirement by the artist himself. And the 15 vs 130+ entries are from the same period of time, and not for different projects.

borderes
As an individual:
- Cachao (15 entries removing the incorrect groups ANVs)
- Israel "Cachao" López ( > 130 entries, with ~15 without Cachao)
- Israel López Valdés (Cachao) (only 1 entry)
>> propose merging to Israel "Cachao" López

Not sure about this. Apparently he was known as just Cachao. I tried to find if he used "Israel Lopez" for songwriting credits only but it doesn't seem to be the case.
IMO we should keep Cachao, but I'm really not sure. Perhaps this one deserves its own thread.

denizen
Apparently he was known as just Cachao

IMO, his nickname, as used by friends. If you google "Cachao", very few entries come without the full "Israel Cachao López".
I understand your point though. but, maybe I'm wrong, but I always try to reduce the number of entries (more useful I think, and avoiding further side creations or crossed ANVs ... I've recently cleanse/merged dozens of profile, sometimes an incredible mess for 1 or 2 entries).
+ let's try not to multiply the nb. of thread, unless you really think that a dedicated thread would be much more efficient
(ideally we would keep this one for all LatAm questions, convening the ones knowledgeable / having interest here, what they succeed to do in the Reggae Artists thread with the same objective: what do you think?)

borderes
(ideally we would keep this one for all LatAm questions, convening the ones knowledgeable / having interest here, what they succeed to do in the Reggae Artists thread with the same objective: what do you think?)

Agree, I hope it turns out this way (although there have been only 4 of us writing in this thread so far :) )

borderes
IMO, his nickname, as used by friends. If you google "Cachao", very few entries come without the full "Israel Cachao López".

The wikipedia entry is just "Cachao". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cachao
And I see most of his album covers only mention Cachao: Cuban Music In Jam Session for instance.
But you couldn't add Israel Lopez as ANV of Cachao, hence why I think "Israel Lopez" should have its own separate profile.

Ok, so we would keep 2 different profiles: "Cachao" + (to be created) "Israel López" , with all entries of "Israel Cachao Lopez" type to be ANV'd to "Cachao"
.... and will need some extra time to proceed with the changes

Ha! Sorry I'm already spending all my free time on the Radio Filharmonisch Orkest correction...

I'd still like to get more opinions on this. Maherto, what do you think? ...anyone else?

denizen
Radio Filharmonisch Orkest correction

bravo

denizen
anyone else?

jvaahtera ...
come on guys, free fresh beers here

New question:
- Rodolfo* Con Los Idolos - Se Pusieron Las Pilas... Volumen 2

Should it be entered as Los Idolos?

denizen
as separate artists

to me as separate artists: both have credits by their own

> any other opinion on Cachao / Israel Lopez? 2 entries w.alias or merging to one entry?

I think could merge without problem, everybody (I suppose) know just "Cachao" (not Cachaito his nephew) is only one artist I mean Israel "Cachao" Lopez. So no make sense two artist profile´s for a same person.

Cachao is "alias"...Israel Lopes, alias "Cachao".

I definitely vote to merge into only one entry.

Just throwing in another name, as this thread seems to focus on latin artists in general: Félix Chapottín

His name is spelled in various ways but I do think the correct spelling to be Chappottín (double-P & double-T).
Anyone?
Thanks.

borderes
any other opinion on Cachao / Israel Lopez? 2 entries w.alias or merging to one entry?

Must be 2 entries, Cachao & Israel Lopez are 2 completely different names, can't be just one.

With its 130 entries, I think that the existing artist Israel "Cachao" López could be valid for both.
but I will align with the majority

IMO to Cachao and many cubans artist (and not only) we could apply a same "treatment" like this:

Alfredo "Chocolate" Armenteros
or

Chucho Valdés

In both cases "Chocolate" and "Chucho" are aliases in the midle of name... Jesús "Chucho" Valdez. Chuco became name at times...but similar situation

Yeah but they weren't known as just "Cucho" or "Chocolate", whereas Cachao was mainly known by just his surname.

I think we should keep the existent José "Chepito" Areas.
Let's delete duplicated ones but don't change existent ones - "if it works, don't change it".

Not very useful to maintain several different PANs in my opinion

Maybe moving to Alias not

They can be merge no doubt RSG §2.14.2.

Anyway 100% agree with Maherto "if it's work, don't change it".

I´m afraid but sure no make sense more than Israel "Cachao" López
I´m know what I´m talking, my first record at 4 was this Descargas Cubanas and I´m 43

We need vote right? so I vote on Maherto ideia:
«keep the existent Israel "Cachao" López, similar to examples given, also similar to José "Chepito" Areas.
Let's delete duplicated ones but don't change existent ones»

Any rank hunters here?

Currently as "Alias"

Mass move from Isaac Villanueva (62 credits)?.... or viceversa :-P

PS. edit:

Looks like Isaac Villanueva M. should be the new PAN.
https://discogs.mejorespelis.org/artist/1541980-Isaac-Villanueva?filter_anv=1&anv=Isaac+Villanuevpa+M. with 10 credits.

UriahCego
Looks like Isaac Villanueva M. should be the new PAN

Seems a little queer tu use just M. as second surname.
I'd vote for Isaac Villanueva Mendoza.

Agree +1

Isaac Villanuevpa M. looks surname typo error (V)
Isaac Villanueva to Isaac Villanueva Mendoza my vote

then more people vote: Run, Forrest, Run!

yuhann
His name is spelled in various ways but I do think the correct spelling to be Chappottín (double-P & double-T)

he is known as Chappottín with two "p", but his real name is Félix Chapottín Lage with one "p"
but in all cases, has two "t"
so Félix Chapottín seems OK as PAN

salsapica
Isaac Villanueva to Isaac Villanueva Mendoza my vote

+1

So for Cachao, except if additional different opinions, consensus seems to be:
>> keeping both Cachao (as alias)

If I sum up:
- borderes: Move everything to Israel "Cachao" López
- Maherto: Keep both Maherto is that right?
- denizen: Keep Cachao (Israel Cachao Lopez as ANV) and create Israel López for when credited without his surname
- salsapica: Move everything to Israel "Cachao" López

That's still not exactly a consensus...

salsapica
Anyway 100% agree with Maherto "if it's work, don't change it"

I thought this was a +1
But I'm not in a hurry ;-p let's wait for more opinion

denizen
- Maherto: Keep both Cachao and Israel "Cachao" López ? Maherto is that right?
- denizen: Keep Cachao (Israel Cachao Lopez as ANV) and create Israel López for when credited without his surname

Yes, I think we must have 2: 1 with real name and the other as Cachao.
When credited just Cachao we must use Israel "Cachao" López.
By the way Cachao y Su Tipica is a band, can't be an ANV
https://discogs.mejorespelis.org/artist/1504289-Israel-Cachao-L%C3%B3pez?filter_anv=1&anv=Cachao+Y+Su+Tipica
We can't create a "false" artist named Israel López if it doesn't exist in any release!
And it exists Israel Lopéz, that is a different artist! So we would lead to mistakes.

Maherto
We can't create a "false" artist named Israel López if it doesn't exist in any release!

It does though: https://discogs.mejorespelis.org/artist/1504289-Israel-Cachao-L%C3%B3pez?filter_anv=1&anv=Israel+L%C3%B3pez&type=Credits

denizen
It does though:

and also + "López, Israel", "I. Lopez", "Israel Lopez"
but:

Maherto
it exists Israel Lopéz, that is a different artist! So we would lead to mistakes.

seems also a valid reason to keep the existing one

Maherto
I'd vote for Isaac Villanueva Mendoza.

salsapica
Isaac Villanueva to Isaac Villanueva Mendoza my vote

borderes
salsapicaIsaac Villanueva to Isaac Villanueva Mendoza my vote
+1

Well, then el_sabu what do you think?

UriahCego
Well, then Isaac Villanueva Mendoza will be the PAN.

+1 on that

Isaac Villanueva has been invalidated.
The mass move to Isaac Villanueva Mendoza can be done.

Need help with these entries:
Nono Narvaez

Apparently his real name is José R. Narváez, see https://discogs.mejorespelis.org/artist/1494151-Nono-Narvaez?filter_anv=1&anv=Jos%C3%A9+R.+Narv%C3%A1ez

Should we keep Nono Narváez as PAN, and create José R. Narváez as Alias?

Then there's Miguel Aceves Mejia - Yo Tenia Un Chorro De Voz / Tuxpan / Ella / La Del Rebozo Blanco. What do you think?

denizen
Nono Narváez

El Nono Narvaez full name is Jose Rafael Narvaez (also seen Jose Rafael "El Nono" Narvaez) - Colombian musician & composer.
according to the web, Mar Azul is known as a composition of Nono Narváez, so that's the good one.
At this stage I would suggest José R. Narváez as only an ANV of Nono Narváez (& keep this as PAN?), even though I know some might not be aligned, but having 2 PAN, being aliases for 1 or 2 entries at each side, for the same composer role seems a bit strange to me.

the other 2 entries for José Narvaez are most ptoably 1/ 2 different persons 2/ none of them being Nono Narvaez

UriahCego
The mass move to Isaac Villanueva Mendoza can be done.

contributed to approx. 50%

UriahCego
Isaac Villanueva Mendoza

I let only this one:
https://discogs.mejorespelis.org/release/4142066-Its-Nonstop-Cumbia-1/history#latest

:P scary...

so...I'm back to my 78rpm...

Cheers...and call me for next....if you want it off course :)

good work! and indeed Unknown Artist - It's Nonstop Cumbia 1 cannot be fixed without the CD in hand, msg let to original submitter.

Any opinion on Nono Narváez?

salsapica
I let only this one:
https://discogs.mejorespelis.org/release/4142066-Its-Nonstop-Cumbia-1/history#latest

:P scary...

borderes
indeed Various - It's Nonstop Cumbia 1 cannot be fixed without the CD in hand, msg let to original submitter.

I've made a web search for fix this mess and found only the same info as on the sub.

I suspect there's no performing artists on release, in which case it can be addressed by moving composers to the credit section and using Unknown Artist for performer... or calling to the who has a copy for sale...

_PayPal give us a lending hand by ing images or posting here, please!

double post deleted

calling original submitter too
9228289

Edit: 06-18-2016 9228289 has PM me 2 days ago saying he does nt own the release anymore and there's no performing artists on release.

Still waiting for _PayPal help.

Another duplicated one: https://discogs.mejorespelis.org/artist/386988-Juan-Carlos-Alfonso-Rodriguez?noanv=1

Yes agree the same artist need fix one as PAN.
which one of them? Juan Carlos Alfonso and Juan Carlos Alfonso Rodriguez as real name?

By the way there's also a mess with that artits band: credited as Dan Den, the first one used also with ANV "Juan Carlos Alfonso"
Seems credited as Dan Den only in no-Cuban releases, so the first one should be the correct one?

https://discogs.mejorespelis.org/artist/386988-Juan-Carlos-Alfonso-Rodriguez?noanv=1
so is obvious that we shoul use the first one as PAN.

yes the first one is correct, the second one no. That band always was know as Juan Carlos Alfonso Y Su Dan Den

Maherto
Juan Carlos Alfonso is used as ANV on all releases from Juan Carlos Alfonso Rodriguez except on 2, using complete name as writing credits,
https://discogs.mejorespelis.org/artist/386988-Juan-Carlos-Alfonso-Rodriguez?noanv=1
so is obvious that we shoul use the first one as PAN.

agree

we need votes, for me its ok. I´ll help moving in case people decide right.

And about bands?

same, need merge into only one Juan Carlos Alfonso Y Su Dan Den

calling Juan Carlos Alfonso Rodriguez to input his opinion here

yeah, that's fine with me.

yuhann
that's fine with me

+1

so, we can move? Dan Den to the right place?

updated the relevant pages/profiles:

Juan Carlos Alfonso Rodriguez

Those remaining releases under Juan Carlos Alfonso Rodriguez need to be moved accordingly. Thanks.

Been updating the Dan Den profile as well, which implies moving another couple releases to the correct PAN.

Another duplicated (triplicated) one:
Tata Guines. Correct name according to wikipedia is Tata Güines - his Cuban hometown is Güines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tata_G%C3%BCines
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tata_G%C3%BCines
On Cuban page also named Tata Güines:
http://www.ecured.cu/Tata_G%C3%BCines

And also bolero writer: Richard Dannenberg, seems this later one is the more found in the web?

...and Puntilla.

Correct PAN should be Tata Güines. So need fix "ü".
+1 for this

About Puntilla, no objections too.

Maherto
Tata Güines

+1

Maherto
Richard Dannemberg

+1

Maherto
Puntilla Olando Rios duplicated with Orlando Ríos. As alias we've got him as Puntilla.

where do you propose to move Puntilla Olando Rios?

borderes
where do you propose to move Puntilla Olando Rios?

Correct name is Orlando Rios (not Olando...), should be used Orlando Ríos with ANV, I think.

- Tata Gùines as invalid with link to the correct one. I cannot do it as I don't have voting rights.
- Richard Dannenberg (with "n") most releases show the ANV with "m", too.

Maherto
Please mark Tata Gùines as invalid

done

Maherto
Richard Dannenberg (with "n")

also marked as invalid