Ideal payments

Discogs should stop with offering iDeal payments until all problems have been resolved.

At this moment it's a total f**k-up. Several times a week, I have a domestic order where the buyer pays through iDeal but these payments don't arrive at my PayPal and payments are not received in the discogs order page either. Sometimes a payment finally comes through in 6 or 7 hours, but most of the time the payment is automatically refunded to the buyer after three days.

These buyers all experience unnecessary delay. And this is an extremely time-intensive hassle for me as a seller.

Please stop offering iDeal payments for Dutch s until the issues have been resolved.

Suggest an improvement to Discogs https://discogs.mejorespelis.org/forum/topic/843

MusicCaveHolland
Discogs should stop with offering iDeal payments until all problems have been resolved.

At this moment it's a total f**k-up. Several times a week, I have a domestic order where the buyer pays through iDeal but these payments don't arrive at my PayPal and payments are not received in the discogs order page either. Sometimes a payment finally comes through in 6 or 7 hours, but most of the time the payment is automatically refunded to the buyer after three days.

These buyers all experience unnecessary delay. And this is an extremely time-intensive hassle for me as a seller.

Please stop offering iDeal payments for Dutch s until the issues have been resolved.

Yes not ideal at moment

halsteady Just stop iDeal 'payments' until this is fixed please. Or even better, Paypal altogether and switch to Stripe or any other 21st century payment processor.

UPcrates
Or even better, Paypal altogether and switch to Stripe or any other 21st century payment processor.

Got my vote!

iDeal payments still all FAIL.

Is Discogs working on this problem??? Why is iDeal still an option to choose if all payments fail?

fail to Ideal
Ideal to Fail

is it Ideal to keep failing?
Or is it failing to keep Ideal?

What is Ideal, really?

ottologue
fail to Ideal
Ideal to Fail

is it Ideal to keep failing?
Or is it failing to keep Ideal?

What is Ideal, really?

Why trying to be funny.
the iDeal payment function is being used by almost all the Dutch buyers. Since all my sells are domestic, 80% of the payments fail at the moment.

Still having problems with this.
This week 2 buyers saying they paid,but the payment does nog come through...

Same with me. I see most of the domestic buyers now don't pay through iDeal anymore, as a result of this problem. That makes me pay way more PayPal fees (29 cent for an iDeal payment vs the usual high PayPal fee).

Same here, still same issues with Ideal payments, still same confused, frustrated buyers, still sending them iDeal payment links outside of Discogs to solve it. Still no confidence that Discogs will fix this.

MusicCaveHolland & Turn_it_up
Why not put in your sellers ?: Do not use IDeal for now. Lots of trouble yet unsolved.
===
From FanaticVinyl seller's :
For Dutch Buyers: We prefer you paying with BankTransfer or Tikkie.
us when making an order. Don't use PayPal if you don't have to!

Is Tikkie on Discogs allowed?! I think only useable outside Discogs and that's prohibited
===
From UPcrates seller's :
-iDeal (Netherlands only)
-Non-paid orders will be canceled within 4 days and result in negative .

moonhazle
MusicCaveHolland & Turn_it_up
Why not put in your sellers ?: Do not use IDeal for now. Lots of trouble yet unsolved.
===
From FanaticVinyl seller's :
For Dutch Buyers: We prefer you paying with BankTransfer or Tikkie.
us when making an order. Don't use PayPal if you don't have to!

Is Tikkie on Discogs allowed?! I think only useable outside Discogs and that's prohibited
===
From UPcrates seller's :
-iDeal (Netherlands only)
-Non-paid orders will be canceled within 4 days and result in negative .

Sellers do not control the accepted payment methods anymore, Discogs does, through Paypal.
discogs, iDeal payments still not working, have again a frustrated buyer that paid with iDeal and money pending god knows where. Switch if iDeal for now, and then properly fix it.

UPcrates
moonhazleMusicCaveHolland & Turn_it_up
Why not put in your sellers ?: Do not use IDeal for now. Lots of trouble yet unsolved.
===
From FanaticVinyl seller's :
For Dutch Buyers: We prefer you paying with BankTransfer or Tikkie.
us when making an order. Don't use PayPal if you don't have to!

Is Tikkie on Discogs allowed?! I think only useable outside Discogs and that's prohibited
===
From UPcrates seller's :
-iDeal (Netherlands only)
-Non-paid orders will be canceled within 4 days and result in negative .

Sellers do not control the accepted payment methods anymore, Discogs does, through Paypal.
discogs, iDeal payments still not working, have again a frustrated buyer that paid with iDeal and money pending god knows where. Switch if iDeal for now, and then properly fix it.

Not ideal

Same problem here: buyer paid for an order via bank transfer, but I (the seller) didn't receive anything.
Now where to complain? Who's fault is this? Discogs? the bank? PayPal?
Very frustrating....

prob not discogs...

Surely Discogs can do something about this. They will have a SLA with PayPal, and PayPal will not meet the minimum requirements for iDeal payments through PayPal (at least 50% fails). Then Discogs can require PayPal to fix this mess.

Follow up: after 7 days the buyer got her payment back from PayPal on her bank , without further notice. Maybe because I cancelled the order ("on buyers request") the day before. Or maybe not, we'll never know...
It's clear the iDeal to PayPal payment option is far from perfect.

Yesterday 2 orders where the buyer claimed he bought via iDeal yet the order stays on "Invoice Sent".
Everytime we have to explain that iDeal payments can go wrong and payment will probably be returned to buyer within a week. Not fun to do and buyer doesnt always accept that.

Have stopped trying and ask wether a seller accepts banktransfers instead. If not, I simply cancel the order for thecreason that it’s impossible for me to make the payment. Which is frustrating for both parties.

Strangely though, the iDeal-option worked perfectly with a UK based webstore everybtime I bought stuff.

Has it gotcto do with intercontinental payments (Discogs is US, isn’t it?), or do they just have a fucked up module in use?

ZeroZone
Same problem here: buyer paid for an order via bank transfer, but I (the seller) didn't receive anything.
Now where to complain? Who's fault is this? Discogs? the bank? PayPal?
Very frustrating....

In Belgium same problem: some buyers ask for banktransfer, ok by me. In that case you need to message details privately. But as a seller i can't change status to payment received or to shipped to complete order. Very strange since in this case discogs and paypal lose money. Fine by me but of course does create some chaos for buyer/seller and the database alltogether

Knotwilg
But as a seller i can't change status to payment received or to shipped to complete order.

Because off-system payment is not allowed.

kjmahee
seraphinBut as a seller i can't change status to payment received or to shipped to complete order.
Because off-system payment is not allowed.

yep, but if discogs/paypal doesn't allow this it stinks big way. Then you are forced to go 'off-system'. I don't mind paying my fee but we are living in a so called 'free' world. But we aren't if companies setting rules like this. Smells more to dictatorship then democracy

Hi Seraphin, this is because of EU legislation where a platform is obliged to have all payment info as well. They say this can only be done through an integration of payment service provider (PSP) services in the platform.

PayPal is being used as PSP for discogs. PayPal does banktransfers and iDeal payments for discogs buyers in certain countries, but unfortunately these payment options are not functioning well.
Discogs should be able to see this and require PayPal to do a better job (as PayPal will for these payment methods not meet minimum percentage successful payments which will be mentioned in the service level agreement). This is an ongoing problem for more than a year now, and we've never had any reply from Discogs about this problem. This of course forces me to allow direct payments from buyers, when an initial payment through PayPal bank transfer or iDeal fails and fails again.
It is annoying, time consuming and a shame for a professional platform which Discogs would like to be.

Knotwilg
yep, but if discogs/paypal doesn't allow this it stinks big way.

You expect Discogs/PayPal to allow provision for making sales that by both? OK ...

kjmahee
seraphinyep, but if discogs/paypal doesn't allow this it stinks big way.
You expect Discogs/PayPal to allow provision for making sales that by both? OK ...

the only thing i expect is that, especially, discogs allows SEPA payments within EU. Which is free for all EU transactions. It's a simple and decent thing to do.

kjmahee
seraphin
yep, but if discogs/paypal doesn't allow this it stinks big way.
You expect Discogs/PayPal to allow provision for making sales that by both? OK ...

I think the overall underlying (and quite reasonable) expectation is this: if Discogs is requiring the use of a certain payment provider, that provider, and most importantly that provider's integration with the the Discogs platform, needs to function properly. it does not in many cases, and the total lack of response from Discogs to many of these problems is in my view unacceptable.

BaldGhost
I think the overall underlying (and quite reasonable) expectation is this: if Discogs is requiring the use of a certain payment provider, that provider, and most importantly that provider's integration with the the Discogs platform, needs to function properly. it does not in many cases, and the total lack of response from Discogs to many of these problems is in my view unacceptable.

+1
Simply don't use iDeal giving troubles, or remove iDeal from discogs.
Diognes_The_Fox

With the holiday season upon is I am getting many orders from first-time buyers, and they tend to use iDeal as their payment (because Paypal sucks and is not widely used here). All these orders stay in Invoice Sent, and they get their payments back after a couple days. About half of them don't respond to my messages (or don't receive them / don't know how) and so those orders get canceled. The other half will be paid directly off-platform, because that is the only way. This sucks big time, for all parties involved. I'd happily pay the fees to avoid these workarounds and poor buying experience.

To other sellers that have this same issue, do you have a Paypal business or individual / private ? I have the feeling that this matters for iDeal, my is private and it is not working, as in never. Sellers that DO receive iDeal payments, paypal business or private?

I have a business . Sometimes an iDeal payment works, most of the times it doesn't.

...because Paypal sucks... hallo?! wat is er mis met PayPal?!
Ik wou dat al die afzetters op marktplaats.nl eens verplicht werden
om met PayPal te werken, dan zou ik daar veel meer kopen.
Blokeer mij alvast als koper Upcrates. Dank U wel.

...because Paypal sucks... hello?! what's wrong with PayPal?!
I wish all those rip-offs on marktplaats.nl were once mandatory
to work with PayPal, then I would buy a lot more there.
Block me as a buyer Upcrates. Thank you.

PayPal's buyer's protection, that's why all those PayPal haters are here.

Explain on your Profile page and/or Seller how easy it is to create
a PayPal and that iDeal often does not work and give troubles here.
Inform your buyers honestly, and save them & yourself from misery.
Offering iDeal payment -at this point- is your own bad choice.
Who sucks who?

BTW it's iDeal and PayPal not Ideal and Paypal.

moonhazle

Offering iDeal payment -at this point- is your own bad choice.

This is exactly the point - sellers have no control over this. I'd prefer that it works as intended, but since it's not, iDeal payments should be disabled until this is reliable.

As for your other comments, feel free to keep it constructive so we can get this solved.

MusicCaveHolland
I have a business . Sometimes an iDeal payment works, most of the times it doesn't.

OK, so that theory goes out the window then. No clue what else could cause this then without looking under the hood.

Red card !
PayFoul

Takens from Upcrates' seller's :
Important Seller :
-I cannot take responsibility for packages that get lost or damaged in transit. I do offer insured delivery on request. If you have chosen to insure your order I will file and handle the claim process and pay out depending on the insurance outcome. If a parcel is returned for any reason whatsoever, buyer is responsible for the postage to resend the order and no refund is given for returned items. I'm not Amazon, sorry.
-Sealed records are sold as is, and I cannot take responsibility for the actual quality of the vinyl once opened. Vinyl is by default imperfect, pressing mistakes and warps happen, so when buying a sealed record you accept that the sale is final.
Payment:
-Paypal (We're verified)
-Bank Transfer (EU only)
-iDeal (Netherlands only)
-Credit card via Paypal. Credit card s don't have to create a Paypal .
-Non-paid orders will be canceled within 4 days and result in negative .

-I cannot take responsibility for packages that get lost or damaged in transit. Not true.
-Sealed records are sold as is, and I cannot take responsibility for the actual quality of the vinyl
once opened. Vinyl is by default imperfect, pressing mistakes and warps happen, so when
buying a sealed record you accept that the sale is final. Not true.
-iDeal (Netherlands only) No warning provided.

On repeat:
Inform your buyers honestly.
Who sucks who?
PayPal's buyer's protection, that's why those PayPal haters are here IMO.

https://.discogs.mejorespelis.org/hc/en-us/articles/4409783155981-New-PayPal-Payments-Solution-FAQ
Auxiliary payment methods not offered through PayPal, such as Bank Transfer, Cash, Check, Skrill,
etc, will not be ed on the Discogs platform and will no longer be available in your Discogs
shop after you onboard the new PayPal payments solution.

UPcrates
> As for your other comments, feel free to keep it constructive so we can get this solved.

< Discogs knows about the problems with iDeal here.
We will have to wait till they manage to let this work properly on this site.
We cannot do anything for now than ask buyers not to use iDeal,
or Discogs to block the iDeal option till it works well.
Feel free to take constructive steps like I suggested,
it reduces the problem we are taking about.
Feel free to find me more constructive as you would like to see happening.

I have ordered a cd with ideal through paypal, money is taken from my bank , but no paypal receipt of the payment? Paypal did say the transaction was succesful, but no update in the discogs order also. Called paypal and my bank to ask what I should do, both said it was in the webshop's hands rather than paypal or ideal. Do I get my money back or will the order be updated?

You will receive an error message in a day and will get your money back automatically. You could best the seller and refer to this forum topic.

moonhazle
UPcrates https://discogs.mejorespelis.org/forum/thread/981265
How many times must I point out your Seller are wrong?! Change them!

Mind you own business and stay on-topic please, the issue at hand here is that iDeal is not working in many cases and we need to get this solved. If I need help running my seller I will make sure to you directly.

UPcrates Mind your business, your seller's they are far from ideal.
Every experienced Discoger knows your seller's are misleading/false.

I'm here for the other Discogers and that's my business. If you like to hide yourself,
instead of correcting yourself, it is in line of walking away from your responsibility
as seller.for the undamaged arrival of an order.

You come here moaning about how bad iDeal payment works
on Discogs yet you still offer your buyers this option
knowing it often doesn't work properly.

UPcrates If I need help running my seller I will make sure to you directly.

You can only help yourself, I can only repeat myself.

UPcrates You come here moaning about how bad iDeal payment works
on Discogs yet you still offer your buyers this option
knowing it often doesn't work properly.

Ah you did remove the iDeal option. Great.
Now go for the other .

moonhazle
UPcrates You come here moaning about how bad iDeal payment works
on Discogs yet you still offer your buyers this option
knowing it often doesn't work properly.

Now this doesn't work this way. PayPal offers the option for all Dutch buyers when the buy anything on Discogs. Also when you should sell something Moonhazle.

It's just that we Dutch sellers come across this problem more often, because domestic purchases are cheaper due to the shippingcosts.

Last week, I had another new buyer with the same problem. I guided him though these problems and gave him positive . Now I see another seller (international) has left him negative FB because of not receiving a payment. This makes buyers run off this platform.

And 20 minutes ago I had a new domestic order from a new buyer: same problem. **Sigh**

MusicCaveHolland
This makes buyers run off this platform.

But the guy who was the face of all this said it basically wasn't a problem and then left his job. What to make of it all?

MusicCaveHolland I known all in & outs, and all my previous words show that.
Keep on offering cheaper iDeal transactions but with more problems... I don't know which
of the two make one run off this platform. (I personally like to pay a bit more for a smooth transaction,
and have PayPal's buyer's protection as extra). It's Discogs who needs to solve the problem.

dunforthemoment
+1

I tried using iDEAL twice now here. When I click the checkout button it will show the iDEAL button, after clicking that you have to enter your phone number and mail address, in my case I had to make
an adjustment in my last name, because it wasn’t complete and then select the bank you’re using to complete the payment using the bank’s app.
After completing the transaction the money is from my bank to PayPal and I get shown a web page on the ‘paypal.com’ domain with the message (in Dutch); “Thank you very much for your order. The webshop will send you a confirmation of the order". I do get the order confirmation, but the payment status remains ‘Invoice Sent’. After around 6.5 hour an email is received from PayPal with the notification the payment to [seller] cannot be completed and I will receive a refund (which takes around 4 days).

Please fix this

This problem still isn't fixed. I receive an average of 1 order a week with a failed payment because of this problem. it takes a lot of time to guide buyers into paying again and sometimes a sale will just be left unpaid. Annoying and time & money-consuming.

MusicCaveHolland
This problem still isn't fixed.

Have you raised a request for each failure? https://.discogs.mejorespelis.org/hc/en-us/requests/new

E-man2
Please fix this

https://.discogs.mejorespelis.org/hc/en-us/requests/new

The problem is still not solved

Possibly, Discogs isn't using PayPal's webhooks to retrieve the status of iDeal payments.
https://developer.paypal.com/docs/checkout/apm/ideal/

Discogs needs to use CHECKOUT.ORDER.APPROVED to capture the payment.
If they don't within a certain time frame, PayPal will automatically cancel the order and refund the buyer.

See the reply from Community member https://discogs.mejorespelis.org/forum/thread/972575

It’s a bug in the Discogs app, I hope it will be fixed soon.

ZeroZone
It’s a bug in the Discogs app, I hope it will be fixed soon.

It looks like Discogs will not fix anything. They say that the issue is with PayPal and their iDeal integration. I believe they have it wrong because then the issue would be much more widespread. Discogs isn't the only one offering iDeal via PayPal, I presume.

Going by PayPal's developer documentation, it really looks like it is Discogs who should check the payment status at PayPal and no one else.

Yes I'd like to see this fixed or resolved

Yes I'd like to see this fixed or resolved

Geertidow
Yes I'd like to see this fixed or resolved

Raise a request https://.discogs.mejorespelis.org/hc/en-us/requests/new

ZeroZone
See the reply from Community member krankyoram here: https://discogs.mejorespelis.org/forum/thread/972575

It’s a bug in the Discogs app, I hope it will be fixed soon.

5 months later, issue still live. What a joke.

FIX THIS
New buyers dont understand this and things they are getting tricked or wont return and we have to cancel these orders...
Discogs is also missing fees on this..

I'm facing this situation right now. Buyer paid via iDeal but nothing has been received so far.
Anyone any tips here?

Tell the buyer that due to an interface error between PayPal and discogs, the money will automatically be returned in a few days. And that the buyer can pay again after they’ve received their initial payment back. In the meantime, adjust the shippingcosts with 1 cent, so a new payment link will be made (hopefully without the faulty code).
And also refer the buyer to this thread.
Cheers,
Joost

MusicCaveHolland
Tell the buyer that due to an interface error between PayPal and discogs, the money will automatically be returned in a few days. And that the buyer can pay again after they’ve received their initial payment back. In the meantime, adjust the shippingcosts with 1 cent, so a new payment link will be made (hopefully without the faulty code).
And also refer the buyer to this thread.
Cheers,
Joost

Thank you!!!

Noticed the ideal issue a couple of times now myself, as a buyer, and it's very annoying.
The money is taken from my bank , but the popup window never goes away, thus payment isn't made to the seller.

Then, as others mentions, hours later I get 3 emails in 1 hour saying something went wrong and money is put back within 3 days.
So I use the Paypal option and opt to use my debit card instead of credit card option, and that works fine.

UPcrates
5 months later, issue still live. What a joke.

1 year further, still getting these orders at least once a month, another one today.

The first post is from more than 3 years ago, and it's still not working, this is unacceptable.
I tried to pay with ideal 2 times and both times the payment did not get through, i did get refunded 2 times eventually.
And then discogs has the audacity to say that i'm a non paying customer and get an automatic negative , if i don't pay in 24 hours :(
I paid with paypal and that did work, so no ideal for me ever again.

Had this week again 2 orders with Ideal payments that didn't go through. Same problem as described before and that has been happening for the last 3 years. It often happens with buyers new to Discogs (who do not have or want Paypal s) so this is such a poor first experience with buying on Discogs. If anybody still cares, please get this fixed.

kjmahee
Knotwilgyep, but if discogs/paypal doesn't allow this it stinks big way.
You expect Discogs/PayPal to allow provision for making sales that by both? OK ...

Discogs could simply charge their commission from buyer when they make the order, and let the seller and buyer figure out the payment themselves. I don't know why they should get involved in that at all.

That would be the benefit of everyone involved. system handles the frauds.

Jhuttun
I don't know why they should get involved in that at all.

because they have a whole lot more worldwide online market regulations to conform with which essentially are outsourced to PayPal.

I experienced this problem as a buyer myself with a payment I made for another webshop. My iDeal payment was done, but PayPal didn't complete the payment to the merchant. So this seems to be a PayPal problem, not a discogs problem. I have filed some requests at PayPal, so they can fix things. But I never received a response.

I think this is very low on PayPal's list of priorities, as the iDeal payment system is a competitor for PayPal. iDeal only charges 29 cents fee for each transaction (instead of the crazy amount PayPal charges). iDeal will be available in the whole EU in a few years (but under a different name). For PayPal every failed iDeal transaction will lower trust in iDeal and will direct the traffic to PayPal directly.

MusicCaveHolland
PayPal didn't complete the payment to the merchant. So this seems to be a PayPal problem, not a discogs problem.

Merchants have to do a callback to PayPal to confirm the payment so it may be Discogs' fault too.

Discogs is the one at fault offering a payment service that works fine on it's own,
but not on their site implemented in PayPal. We know Discogs is sleeping for years on this,
so expect no action, it's like pulling a dead horse, while it's them who pull you a leg...
All you can do is: put in your seller's you only accept PayPal for this reason
and hope it gets read.

It's especially unprofessional as Business Seller (who I attended before), to state:
''Important Seller :
-I cannot take responsibility for packages that get lost or damaged in transit. I do offer
insured delivery on request. If you have chosen to insure your order I will file and handle
the claim process and pay out depending on the insurance outcome.''

You as seller always are, as is stated* at any check out.
Insurance is for the seller not the buyer who has PayPal Buyer's Protection.
You can only help yourself, I can only repeat myself.

*The seller assumes all responsibility for this listing. Sellers certify that they only offer products
or services that comply with applicable laws and regulations. The seller is responsible for the sale
of their items and for managing any issues arising out of or in connection with the contract for sale
between the seller and the buyer.

Blackpapercrown
JhuttunI don't know why they should get involved in that at all.because they have a whole lot more worldwide online market regulations to conform with which essentially are outsourced to PayPal.

But then they wouldn't be an online market? Merely a bulletin board for goods? Or that's how I've always understood it.

I do most of my shopping in domestic sites, and that's how they operate, and they are within EU regulation.

jweijde
Merchants have to do a callback to PayPal to confirm the payment so it may be Discogs' fault too.

My best guess is that it is related with this indeed. Also, as a marketplace you can control which payment methods are enabled through Paypal so since this is a persistent issue the easy solution would be to just disable iDeal from the paypal payment methods. Or if that means a revenue loss, just fix it..?