Chilly Gonzales again: Creation of additional alias /PAN "Chilly Gonzales"
Started by Oliver_Ostblock 7 days ago, 6 replies
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Chilly Gonzales is an alias for Jason Charles Beck, Canadian musician now living in since more than 20 years.
When starting his end 1990's musical career, he called himself Gonzales or Gonzo.
However, during this stage, he already started to use the moniker "Chilly Gonzales" in 1999 (Source: https://blog.iwonder.com/why-you-should-watch-chilly-gonzalez-documentary-on-iwonder/).
The first appearance of "Chilly Gonzales" instead of "Gonzales" was in 2000 on Chilly Gonzales* - The Entertainist.
However, between 1999 and 2009, "Gonzales" was the widely used name for him and his work.
On the other hand, the same is true the other way round in the time span between 2010 and 2025. In this time span,
"Gonzales" was almost never used intentionally on his releases, but "Chilly Gonzales" was the exclusive PAN used by Jason Charles Beck.
In the database, this step was still not taken up.
PAN Jason Beck.
PAN elmongrel.
In a comment on Gonzales artist profile, dub_e_72 stated "
"i’m surprised this artist doesn’t read ‘chilly gonzales’ as the principal artist name...[...]"
4 years ago, https://discogs.mejorespelis.org/forum/thread/863485 ,
but the discussion stayed pro "Gonzales" with only two s taking part in the discussion, Chilly Gonzales and use it as a third alias for all releases, where "Chilly Gonzales" (+ANVs as "Chilly G." and others) is credited coexisting with "Gonzales" (+ ANVs as "Gonzo").
Reasons and arguments:
Statistics
- With exceptions, PAN "Gonzales" was used for 10 years (1999-2009), PAN "Chilly Gonzales" is used for 15 years now (2010-2025)
- Filtering the "Gonzales" profile, 245/783 entries (31%) directly point to "Chilly Gonzales", which increases to 265 (34%) if adding all ANVs of "Chilly Gonzales"
History and official sources
- The official website of the artist is https://www.chillygonzales.com
- The official bandcamp-page is https://chillygonzales.bandcamp.com/
- Official facebook: https://www.facebook.com/chillygonzales
- Official Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chilly_gonzales/
- This website was started Dec 6, 2009 and was launched Feb 8, 2010.
- It was preceeded by www.gonzpiration.com, started Dec 4, 2007. This website was shut down April 22, 2010.
This is an evidence for the change in stage name Gonzales --> Chilly Gonzales in 2010
The artist in an Interview from 2010
In an article by "The Guardian", Gonzales states the following about his stage name:
""Chilly" Gonzales, aka "Gonzo", aka Gonzales, aka 38-year-old Canadian Jason Charles Beck, is a producer, a classically trained pianist, a comedian-cum-cabaret artist, a film-maker and a left-field pop star in his own right who runs a gamut of styles. "I just made things even more confusing by re-adding the 'Chilly' to my name," he says, ever the smartass, though no less charming for it. "Is it Gonzales or 'Chilly' Gonzales? Beautiful chaos...""
(Source: "https://www.theguardian.com/music/2010/aug/29/chilly-gonzales-luke-bainbridge-feature )
My interpretation is, that he cites his stage name, which he already used in 2000, which he gave up then from 2001 to 2009.
Indeed, he states, that 1) he uses both names intentionally 2) obviously, he has "phases" in his work, when he uses the one and the other.
Comments on the old thread:
Releases prior to 2010 were labeled Gonzales [...]which is why it is a valid PAN and should not be changed.
I would share this idea. Both PANs, however should co-exist.
Unless it can be proved he was at one point known as just "Gonzales" and then at a given point changed his name to "Chilly Gonzales". In which case it would be an alias, because of "fundamental name change" and all that nonsense.
This is exactly, what I try, even though a proof can imho only be done by evidence. I tried to give some above.
No, Gonzales/Chilly Gonzalez is an alias for Jason Beck. He did not use Chilly Gonzalez to differentiate his performances from Gonzales. They are ANVs of each each other, not aliases of each other.
Gonzales is an alias for Jason Beck, I agree. In fact he did differentiated his performances after 2009 definitely, as he didn't use it anymore. I have a different opinion on the last 1-2 sentences. This is, because we have ruled this out in the guidelines.
rdvriese
To be fair, "differentiation" isn't everything. If he changed his his artist name, like if we have a statement saying "from now on I shall be known as Chilly Gonzalez, not just Gonzalez", then that's alias material. Because of "fundamental name change". Like Dixie Chicks and The Chicks (8). But we'd need a good source for that. And it has to be consistent. In the absence of that, ANVs work fine.
This is exactly my point above and I try to cancel the absence of missing sources. On the other hand, even the statistical presence of 33% on this "ANV" and it's time-dependent use should be proof enough.
Honestly speaking, I didn't know Chilly Gonzales as Gonzales for a long time until my "Discogs-career started, and this is, how I present him in my radio show for years. From todays' point of view, the alias "Gonzales" is something like dead...
Guidelines analysis
RSG §2.1.3 B)
The PAN for artists without a consistent and concurrent stage name or for non-performing artists (engineers, writers, etc.), should be the name as presented on the majority of releases. However, when consistently credited with initials or a partial name (or a combination thereof), the complete name should be the PAN if reliable sources are provided (even if this results in a PAN with only ANVs). This is especially important for artists with common names.
As stated above, Chilly Gonzales uses this alias consistently during the past 15 years. This guideline would prefer the complete name. Thus, Chilly Gonzales would be prefered over Gonzales. Imho, the (comparatively) clear cut between usage of the both names would rather lead to apply RSG §2.1.7.
This is especially important for artists with common names.
Another emphasis on this point: Currently, there are 15 different Gonzales-profiles in the database and there is already some mixed up entries in "Gonzales" profile, especially those, which are referencing releases published prior to Jason Charles Beck's birth.
RSG §2.1.7 C)
An alias is created for an Artist with a mononym PAN when surname-only credits exist.
This would be applicable, if "Chilly" would exist as an ANV for "Gonzales". This is not the case, if going through all possibilities.
Anyway "Chilly G."-credits do exist. And I wonder, how s not being deeply in the topic should be able to conclude PAN "Gonzales" form a "Chilly G."-credit. Anyway, from the facts, this guideline is not really applicable in this case.
RSG §2.1.7 E)
Exceptions [For 2.1.7 D] are allowed when an artist uses various names concurrently. In these cases, an ANV may be more appropriate using the complete name as PAN.
In a certain way, Chilly Gonzales uses "Chilly Gonzales" concurrently with "Gonzales", as he states himself, as an expression of a certain chaos. This chaos, however, is less factual than expressed by him in 2010. He doesn't return to "Gonzales" after 2010, so it is simply a two-times switch (2000 on "The Entertainist" and 2010 for the rest of his recordings).
Assuming, he still would mix both names, this guideline leads us to the oppsite of the current state in the database. As the above quote states, in such cases, the use of the full name, i.e. "Chilly Gonzales" rather than "Gonzales" would be more appropriate.
In my opinion, this would help to finish the discussion, but it would not reflect the overall story of Gonzales/Chilly Gonzales.
RSG §2.1.7 D)
An alias is created for Artists who have definitively abandoned their previous stage name (PAN) by the addition or removal of a term, section, or name.
Even though the strong words "definitively abandoned" are too strong in this case, as Gonzales reserves further switches in his interview from 2010, this is the guideline, which best reflects the situation for an artist, who thinks more in "stages" or "phases" rather than in definitively abandoning artist names. From 2010 to the start of the 2020's, "Chilly Gonzales" is the name for the artist almost without exception. During the past few years, he doesn't return to "Gonzales" again, but he starts from time to time to use his name "Gonzo" (an ANV of "Gonzales"), e.g. as title of his 2024 album "Gonzo".
Else, this paragraph reflects what to do, when a switch in name was done (taking into , that nothing is forever). A (further) alias for Jason Charles Beck "Chilly Gonzales" has to be created. This is imho the best option, as it reflects at best the past 15 years of his artist history.
Conclusion
Jason Charles Beck aka Gonzales aka Chilly Gonzales is a borderline case of Discogs artist naming conventions.
As the discussion in the thread 4 years ago already suggests, some research could fix this issue, which was pointed out in several cases in the past. Power s wondering about the current state and a general situation, that doesn't reflect todays' state of the art.
Now what can be done?
1. Nothing
Chilly Gonzales will stay an ANV for Gonzales, no Chilly Gonzales profile will be introduced as PAN/alias.
Pos:
- Nothing else to do
- Most safe variant for all who do not accept the above findings
Neg:
- Artist name consistently used in the past 15 years is ignored
- 33% of the entries are using that ANV Chilly Gonzales
- The least acceptable solution regarding the above guidelines
2. Changing PAN "Gonzales" to PAN "Chilly Gonzales"
Pos:
- Favourite solution by above guidelines for inconistant usage of names
Neg:
- Lot of edits are needed
- Doesn't reflect properly the years 1999 to 2009
- 66% of releases will have an ANV to that PAN
3. Create a PAN "Chilly Gonzales as alias for "Gonzales"
Pos:
- Both credits can be strictly divided
- Acceptable solution by above guidelines
- Moderate amount of edits needed
Neg:
- Factual "abandoning" is rather switches between different names
My final conclusion is to pick variant 3 and then to do the needed edits and profile clean-ups.
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-1 to keep it separate. -
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Please don't separate it.
On his website he has all his releases listed in one continuous discography, no matter which name variation was used.
That's the way I would also like to keep seeing it on Discogs, all in one continuous discography.
Option 1 or 2 would be fine for me.
A similar example is Tomcraft.
Until 2001 he appears as DJ Tomcraft, from then on as Tomcraft. We have it as ANV on Discogs, not as alias. -
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obscuria
Option 1 or 2 would be fine for me.
I see, but then to be straight with Discogs guidelines, at least option 2 would help to put the more specifying "Chilly" into PAN...as I tried to explain above :) -
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I would prefer option 2, but the editing effort scares me. -
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obscuria
I would prefer option 2, but the editing effort scares me.
This is why I opened this thread. I would do this mass edit.
I already made dozens of mass edits, so this message was made to first discuss options and if this edits seems ok to the community.
If we will find a solution, I will
- give a plan, how to proceed
- do the necessary edits
- do some additional edits, which usually fit to the mass edit (e.g. to remove incorrect Gonzales entries)
- give a final report here
Now in this stage, I ask first, if and which edit would be the best. If we will not agree, I will not do anything...
